Ongoing argument!
Ivan Rusev
I fully understand the math behind what you’re saying. But I got through explaining why is doesn’t matter, and that fell on your deaf ears!
You said, “…if you had no bias whatsoever…”
Ivan it’s you that doesn’t have the open mind to give credence to other technologies than batteries. They’re out there, you’re just not aware of them.
When i went to Costco to pick up my Rx, the teller asked me for my costco card. I said I don’t have one (I get my Rxes without a card). He said i should get one. I said why? He said, because you can get a discount.
I said, why would I need a discount? My prescription is FREE. $0.00! How much of a discount can I get on that?
How will you get any better efficiency by not using *free* hydrogen??
https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/transportation/2020/10/07/meet-the-other-kind-of-electric-car–hydrogen-fuel-cell-evs
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Someone gave a link to this. Quote:
<< The Canadian Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Association recently produced a report extolling hydrogen vehicles. Among other points, it said that the carbon footprint is an order of magnitude better than electric vehicles: 2.7g of carbon dioxide per kilometre compared to 20.9g. >>
https://theconversation.com/hydrogen-cars-wont-overtake-electric-vehicles-because-theyre-hampered-by-the-laws-of-science-139899
But as this article says, hydrogen is not as efficient as batteries.
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Ivan Rusev
Said, “but (hydrogen) really not a good option for cars.”
How can green hydrogen not be a good option when it’s free?
Nikola is building a factory, we’ll see how that goes in a few years. Maybe Tesla will buy them out and convert the factory into a warehouse for storing Model Ys and 3s for the western US. 😂🤣
Converting a heavy truck to electric will cost a lot, mainly for the batteries. It’s much less cost to convert to hydrogen. And the diesel engine makers will have done the whole conversion for their own engines.
Ships are not so restricted on weight. Trains can use electric power lines overhead like they do in other countries. Hydrogen for heavy trucks is a viable option as long as hydrogen is cost competitive with other fuels.
There may not be a need for hydrogen in transportation. The cost of green hydrogen may be so low that the oil companies may make synthetic fuel out of hydrogen and the trucks will not need to be converted.
This will then be used in place of jet fuel in airplanes.
Ivan Rusev
You have a mind that is not open to new, fresh ideas. That’s the same problem that plagues Big Oil. They knew about climate change since before 1980 and hid it from the public. That’s what has got us into this climate change mess.
Heinz Baumann
Ivan Rusev
Heinz said, “your fantasy edge case is not practical nor cost effective.”
Ivan Rusev said, “show me where there is free hydrogen.”
You’re right about batteries being more efficient than hydrogen.
But did it stop ICE engines, which are less than 25% efficiency, from running the world for more than a century?
When hydrogen is made from water on site using electricity that is free from solar panels, there will be no need for batteries. Heinz, should I say what you said? “Using batteries is not practical nor cost effective.”
Right now there are two companies (Lavo and Home Power Picea) that make an appliance that uses solar to generate hydrogen, which is stored and then used later to generate electricity. It’s a matter of what Musk did with Tesla: getting these appliances mass produced to lower the cost to be competitive with batteries.
There are also companies (GenCell, Plug Power, Bloom Energy, Ballard) that make hydrogen fuel cells for generating power for covering the times when solar or wind are below normal.
Ivan Rusev
Said, “Do your own research bla bla…”
I have! You had better believe it! That’s why you’re unable to understand what’s happening and will happen. Remember, VHS won over Betamax, even though it wasn’t as good. Batteries may win over hydrogen, even though batteries may have just as many or more disadvantages as green hydrogen.
Ivan Rusev
I said “This is going in circles.”
I never said hydrogen is better for cars. I just said that you and others haven’t done the research necessary to understand the whole picture and you and others keep going back to the same lame excuses for not using the thing that makes possible storing enough energy to last through the winter, which batteries can’t do. The battery in a BEV won’t be alive in a few weeks unless it is charged. There are many other disadvantages, the biggest is the weight of batteries – they’re *not* a viable option for long range airplanes.
So your problem is a closed mind, unable to deal with the whole situation.
“Batteries are safer!”
Surely you’re joking! 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Watch this!
https://youtu.be/EgtKwxzgggg
I had to block H. Baumann because he resorted to ad hominem name calling attacks.
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Khairul Anwar Sanusi
The pumps, fuel cells, tanks are all amortized over decades so the costs are not that expensive per kWh.
Some infrastructure may be converted from natural gas to hydrogen. For starters they may mix some low percentage of hydrogen with the natural gas.
Gencell converts the hydrogen to ammonia, then back again to hydrogen. Lavo uses cartridges to store the hydrogen, a day’s worth in 4 cartridges. Some use hydrogen under high pressure – 10,000 psi or 700 Bar.
But the long term storage will be in underground salt caverns that are now being used to store natural gas.
The low cost of green hydrogen is because the renewables must be overbuilt to handle the peak demand, but most of the time there will be excess renewables. So this excess will be used to generate green hydrogen.
Khairul Anwar Sanusi
Said, “… about the cost of green hydrogen going lower than other storage forms…”
The cost of the Earth not changing to renewables plus storage, i.e. business as usual using fossil fuels, is certain climate change and total chaos for humanity. So the cost of switching to renewables plus storage is a minor factor given the alternative choice. We humans _have_ to convert to renewables plus storage, there is no choice. No matter what the drawbacks to hydrogen are, it’s simple and easy to generate hydrogen from water by electrolysis. And hydrogen is mature because (gray fossil fuel) hydrogen is already made, stored, transported and used in industry all over.
Khairul Anwar Sanusi
Exactly – levelized cost of energy. At this time green hydrogen is more expensive. I’m not sure about gray hydrogen, it’s used in huge quantities in industry and is made from natural gas that became very cheap due to fracking. It may be cheaper than batteries. But the cost of green hydrogen must come down so it can replace the gray hydrogen.
